Anatomy of a Perfect Sales Conversation: There is No One-Size-Fits-All

By Matt Flug | August 8, 2023

Today, there are thousands of people claiming they’ve cracked the code to consistently have the perfect sales conversation. Here’s the thing, there is no silver bullet to create the perfect sales conversation in every situation, because every situation is different, and requires a different approach. There are countless myths out there including:

While active listening is important, these axioms of professional selling are preached to salesforces around the world as gospel. We learn that in sales, we’re supposed to be great listeners who create an open dialogue with our buyers.

Yet, these laws of selling aren’t necessarily true in every scenario. For example, what if your sale is:

Far too many sales ‘gurus’ fail to mention that their methods only work in specific sales environments or for one type of organization. Instead, they generalize the advice and leave people frustrated when that one approach doesn’t work for them. If you want to truly optimize your conversations, there are four factors you need to consider about your unique sales process:

For the rest of this article I’ll refer to conversation style, which is a combination of two factors:

Talk:listen ratios and interchanges per minute can easily be plotted on an X-Y axis to visually show the conversation style of the rep. We refer to this graph as the Conversation Style Matrix. Here’s how it works (the magic on the back end). A conversation intelligence tool ingests the recording, which is then run through acoustic models and artificial intelligence to detect and omit dead air minutes such as interactive voice responses (IVRs), hold music, and silence. This provides clean data that is then fed into the Conversation Style Matrix.

Mythbusting with Matrixes

First off, let’s dispel this 80/20 myth. We’ve analyzed 2000+ Conversation Style Matrixes and none of them are as extreme as the 80/20 rule. The largest outlier we measured was a 35:65 talk to listen ratio over a month’s worth of calls.


While listening to your buyer is important, sellers need to talk to them too! The truth is you have to collect and look at more data. Compare conversion and win rates against a conversation style matrix to understand what the optimal ranges look like for your organization based on the four factors outlined above. Here’s how each of the four factors that are unique to your sales type influences your optimal ranges in the Conversation Style Matrix:

What You Sell

The products and services you offer heavily affect the optimal conversation style. Selling timeshares isn’t the same as selling supplies to companies that operate fleets. Selling software isn’t the same as selling consumer debt repair or small business loans.

If you sell something evangelical, your reps should fall more into the lower left quadrant for certain call types where they have to talk more to explain your offering.

If you sell something commoditized where buyers generally know what they’re buying, your reps should fall close to the center, but a bit higher on the y-axis. They won’t need to talk as much but should elicit healthy dialogue and interchanges as the buyer goes back and forth on their needs. Think about a conversation to order office furniture, for example. The buyer and seller have lots of quick back and forths with each party talking a similar amount to get the details of the buyer’s order correct.

Who You Sell To

Different personas and verticals require different conversation styles. Some personas want to talk your ear off because you’re the first person who really ‘gets’ their challenge. Others want you to cut to the chase and lay down the pitch. They want context first before they are willing to open up and share. Here are some baselines for conversation styles when having conversations with different personas:

Your Selling Motion

The buying process for different types and sizes of companies is vastly different than it is for others. An enterprise manufacturing company may have a completely different process than an enterprise technology company. You have to consider your selling motion in relation to conversation style. 

Relatively simple decision-making processes have conversations that typically look like a 60:40 split of the rep talking as they ask shorter questions to get the buyer talking before explaining their product or service. Complex sales require a lot of listening during discovery calls and longer monologues during solution presentations. Since complex sales heavily vary from industry to industry, the reps’ conversation style will vary as well. The types of conversations they have may vary more depending on the purpose of their scheduled calls.

If the calls are mostly discovery calls you’ll see far more listening and interchanges. In the calls are mostly demonstrations of capabilities you’ll see more talking and fewer interchanges.

The Type of Call

All sales calls are not created equally. While there are a lot of different factors at play in addition to call type, there are a few hallmark traits to pay attention to for different call types.

Cold calls require the seller to establish context and say something of value to earn the right to ask questions. Reps should aim to speak 45%-55% of the time and average 3-5 interchanges per minute. Outbound calls to follow up on website content downloads or trade show attendees also follow this conversation style because the calls are still mostly cold.

Inbound unscheduled calls and requested contact (inbound leads) follow a different pattern. Your reps should be talking much less, around 35-45% of the time and average about 1.5-3.5 interchanges per minute. Prospects who fill out web forms to request a call with a sales rep typically are in an active buying cycle. They have an issue to address, something they need to accomplish, or a risk to mitigate. As such the job of the rep changes. In a cold call, context is needed. In these calls the buyer already has context. Now the rep needs to move right to discovery to get the prospect to open up and talk more. The rep has earned the right to ask questions by virtue of the work that marketing has done educating the buyer and either getting them to call a phone number or request a meeting. This is why there is much more listening and fewer interchanges as the buyer spends a longer amount of time talking about why they wanted to be contacted.

Scheduled discovery calls are all about asking questions, checking understanding, confirming, clarifying, and active listening. They require somewhere around a 60:40 to 75:25 talk to listen ratio. The 80+% listening recommended by other experts just doesn’t work these days, buyers aren’t willing to simply be interviewed anymore. Scheduled demos are a call breed of their own. Reps should come prepared with a tailored presentation to their prospect, while also eliciting additional insights and feedback from the buyer. In our analysis, we found that a 65:35 ratio and an about of 2.5 interchanges per minute is where top performers land.

As you can see from the data, the 80:20 rule doesn’t appear anywhere. This ‘ideal’ call isn’t happening in the real world as many claim and if it does, that approach can make buyers feel alienated as if they’re playing 21 questions. It all varies depending on the call and what you’re selling.

You might be thinking, “Steve, what the hell am I supposed to do with this information?” Here are three things you can do today:

  1. Start testing and measuring. What works for your business based on what you are selling, who you are selling to, your sales motion and your call types will not work for other businesses.
  2. Use ranges. If you read research that said your reps should listen for 64.1% of their calls, is it wise to follow that guidance blindly? Should your reps be finding a way to listen just a tiny bit more to hit the metrics target of talk vs listen? No, of course not.
  3. Allow personal style to play a role. We call it the Conversation Style Matrix for a reason. The points on the four boxes represent styles. So long as the rep is not veering out of the range that we know is optimal, things are OK. The chart tells us more about reps where the wheels are coming off the rails because they are product/feature dumping with big walls of sound. Or calls where the rep annoys the buyer with way too many questions without providing any value.

There you have it folks. No one can tell you exactly what optimal looks like in your organization. You have to figure it out and leverage benchmarks to help you get started. Conversation intelligence software works hand in hand with your to enable you to identify the optimal conversation styles for each call enhancing performance for every rep at scale.

To learn more about how to get the most out of your conversation intelligence tool check out Mediafly’s “101 Ways to get more from your conversation intelligence” guide here!

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